Tuesday, June 3, 2008

^V^ GPACKET @ 4.30 , a classical example for" why i said buying high PE stock is a kiss of death !? ^V^


I hv rec'd a mail from my fan saying he was confused with High n Low PER stock after he came across one blogger highly recommended High PER stock 4 share selection, his email attached with d following :-


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Stock Market

Written by " HIGH PER SUPPORTER"

Wednesday, 26 December 2007
To value a share, you must know certain numbers which are important. To name a few, they are:
EPS (earnings per share
DY (dividend yield )
PER or PE (price-earnings ratio)
PSR (price to sales ratio)
NTA or NAV (net tangible asset value)
Gearing (sometimes called debt-equity-ratio)
The PE ratio is the most often talked about. It means the market price per share divided by the net earnings per share. One way of looking at it, is that a PE of 4 means that it will take 4 years to recoup your capital at the current rate of earnings.

Is buying a share at low PE the way to riches? Certainly not. PE alone is not the way to value a share. Wealth is not so easily created; otherwise any form five boy can become rich. You need to know very much more.

Sometimes it is better to buy at high PE than at low PE. When a share is selling at low PE, it means that the prospective earnings are poor and therefore its intrinsic value will be lowered. On the contrary, when it is selling at high PE, it means the prospective earnings are good and therefore its intrinsic value will be enhanced.

It is better to buy a good company in its bad year rather than a bad company in its good year. Think about it, and you will know what I mean.
Prospective earnings are forecast earnings which may turn out to be inaccurate. Hence, if you buy at high PE and your forecast earnings are wrong, the share price will not go up. On the contrary if you buy at low PE and earnings per share subsequently drop, your low PE will become high PE, and the share price will drop also, So you see, it all boils down to earnings.

Fundamental analysts are paid highly, because they are supposed to possess the ability to forecast EPS correctly. In reality, sad to say, many failed miserably.
“If you wish to enjoy the glory of the sunrise, you have to slog through the darkness of the night”. Do your homework, read more, upgrade yourself, and someday you will be rich.
the answer?

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From d above,high PER stocks r highly recommended by him ,buying high PE stock means the prospective earnings are good and therefore its intrinsic value will be enhanced.

Really ? well..let take Gpacket as an example

@ 4.30, Gpacket was traded at PE around 35 (High PE )!

U can see she falled like nobody biz from 4.00

to 3.50

to 3.00

to 2.60

to 1.50 (after its latest QE turned negative last month )

See how bad it is for buying High PE (over value ) stock ?? see ?

D wriiter said these also :-
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On the contrary if you buy at low PE and earnings per share subsequently drop, your low PE will become high PE, and the share price will drop also, So you see, it all boils down to earnings.

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Fully agreed ! but !!! hey..u forgot to mentione what will happen 2 yr High PE stock if its earning per share drop ?? she wont drop ? cos she has intrinsic value ??ha ha ..why dont u mention that ?

Look at Gpacket ! doesnt it belongs to high PE stock @ 4.30 ? Why she falled like nobody biz from 4.30 to 1.50 ?

K.. let compare it to my Low PE pick "SKPRES "

I bought @ 0.165 with PE around 5, it is now traded at 0.135 , d dip is only 15% as compared to Gpacket with dip more than 180% !!

U may say, of course lah..yr skpres is only 16cts mah..

well..ok!

Then take a look at my Mahsing n Hiaptek ..ok ?

FYI, from my old posting as per attached, u can see that I hv made 11K+ from mahsing n 600+ on Hiaptek , let presume i did not sell them off n hold until now , let check it out !

Bought Mah sing @ 1.739 (PE 9 ) n Hiaptek @ 1.94 (PE 8 ) .

today price

Mahsing at current price = 1.51 (falled 13% )

Hiaptek at current price = 1.79 (falled 7.7% )

Gpacket at current price = 1.51 (falled >180% )

Tell me now, whic is better ? high or Low ??

Let presume each point of PE equal to 1 feet, buying gpacket at PE 35 means u r buying at 35 feets , imagine how hard u hit if u fall from 35 feet as compared to buying stock with PE <10 ( less than 10 feets ). got it ?

who will badly hit ? fall from 35 feets or 10 feets ? High PE or Low PE ?

Still dont get it ? ha ha

need a second thought ?

As i said, u know it doesnt mean u understand it, u understand it doesnt mean u know how to apply it ^V^

13 comments:

tinlung said...

beautifully said...thanks sifu sam. actually i'm from zero on FA till now gaining more and more each day i visited this blog.

1 question, how can a EPS affect the share price? or will the share price shoot up instantly after report announcement or in the longer term?

maybe i'm making no sence to my question, but can sifu briefly explain how u link the EPS,PE,dividend yield and NTA together? and hence the share price?

Thank you.

luiz83 said...

Dear Sam,
Agree with u regarding the FA part and i am sure hua an will be coming soon..
Back to EPIC, i did some study too,
Now it has a nett cash equivalents of around 50sens (cash + short term investment) per share and a very low debt to equity ratio,
not to mention a low PER as compare to market PER for O&G sector of 15 thus the current price is still way below its intrinsic value
even though the news may go opposite but EPIC fundamental will remain
:)

kan said...

Dear sifu Sam,

Once again thx for the insightful FA. I have a question which u may help me out...thx in advance :)
OK, after purchasing a FA stock, how to gauge when to dispose it? I purchased some FA stocks eg YTLcement, PPBOIL, YTLPower-wa etc beginning of 2006 and disposed it after realizing around 30% profit. Thereafter those counters shoot up like rocket....!!!!

cstan81 said...

sifu sam,

fully agree on what you said.
Actually Mr FA and Mr Time will proof it...

herbert said...

Cool Eyes:-


股票投资风险高,故投资者所承受的精神压力也特别大。尤其是投机者,在买进之后,总是提心吊胆,深恐血汗钱泡汤。所以,身在办公室,心却在股市,时刻生活在烦恼中,情绪受到干扰,甚至与家人的关系也受到影响,所付出的代价实在太大了。

如果生活不快乐,钱赚得再多,也没有意义。

假如你总是为股票而心烦,我劝你还是早日脱离股市,因为你不适合投资股票。

假如你认为股市是一条适合你的投资管道,那么,就必须设法控制自己的情绪,减少股市波动的冲击。

其实,这并不难,只要有正确的投资态度,同时下定决心,遵循一些简单的原则,就可以减少股票投资所引发的烦恼。

我的经验,也许可供参考。

我有三个“不买”的原则!

第一个原则,不买我不放心的公司的股票。

我常常出国,以前是公干,现在是观光。尤其是在退休之后,出国更频仍,一年少则六、七次,多则十次、八次,短则数天,长则大半个月,天涯海角、无远弗届。

在我买进股票的时候,我总是问自己一个问题:假如我出国旅行半个月,而旅途中没有我所买股票的信息,我会担心吗?

如果答案是“会”的话,很明显的,这只股票不恰合我投资。无论基本因素多么强稳,我都不会买进。

第二个原则:不买时时刻刻都要盯住它的股票。

如果在买进之后,我担心公司会“烂”掉;或公司领导人会耍花招把公司掏空;或是买价太高,股价随时下跌而使我蒙受亏损。只要具有以上情况中的任何一种,我都不会买进。

换句话说,在买进后整天要花时间去监视的股票,不恰合我投资。

我不希望终日生活在惶恐不安中,尤其是在退休之后。

第三个原则:在买进一只股票之后,万一股价大跌,我不敢买进更多,这种股票,我也不买。

没有人能担保,买进后股价不会下跌。

坚持原则生活轻松

在买进后,受到熊市的影响,股价一跌再跌,是很平常的事。

假如在股价大跌之后,你不敢买进更多同一只股票,表示你对这只股票,认识不够、信心不足,因此在价值被极度低估时,应该是最好的增加投资的时机,你却不敢加码,因而错过了低价买进好股的良机。

所以,在买进时,我总是问自己:假如股价大跌的话,我敢买进更多吗?

如果答案是“不”的话,我也不会买进。

当然,在股价大跌后,我还要做更多的功课,确定股价的下跌,不是基本因素改变,而是股市下跌的影响,这样才可加码买进。

如果基本因素改变了,即使股价已跌了一大截;我也加码买进,否则的话,我会亏得更多,甚至倾家荡产。

坚守以上的“三不买”,使我生活轻松,旅途愉快。

det said...

ooppss... HIGH PE & LOW PE AGAIN??? Dilemma???

I suggest u guys to read what Sam posted on Oct 2007... he mentioned a lot abt how to apply on Low PE stock. eg. how to catch low PE with sustainable future earning....how to avoid wrong picking of low PE stock & etc.

I've learned a lot from there... My rate : I LUV IT!!!

FIND IT OUT YOURSELF!!!

herbert said...

haha. now i'm very confident that AA can touvh RM0.85. Just a matter of time.. Whole world airline sound false alarm... Haha.. How about RM0.55?? Maybe...

Samgoss said...

Posting will be light in d coming days, as I'll be taking a few days off 4 holidays ^V^

Sorry..i need to go now..

I forgot to mention one thing :- if u take each point of PE equal to 1 feet, buying gpacket at PE 35 means u r buying at 35 feets , imagine how hard u hit if u fall from 35 feet as compared to buying stock with PE <10 ( less than 10 feets ). got it ?

who will get kill first? fall from 35 feets or 10 feets ?

U can imagine those mainland chinese who bought stocks with PE > 50 to 80 last year, how bad they hit now !?? n also those who bought with negative PE ( they r buying at mount everest height ) .. cantonese said " Cha tol mo !! means nothing left behind !! ha ha

Still dont get it ? ha ha

Benjamin said...

Bro so shiok can go holiday so often. So envy ...

I found this joke very funny:

一戶潘姓人家,長輩過世。 家祭時,請來了一位鄉音很重的老先生來當司儀。 訃聞是這麼寫的:

孝 男:潘根科
孝 媳:池氏
孝孫女:潘良慈
孝 孫:潘道時

但這位老先生老眼昏花又發音不標準。當他照著訃聞唱名時,凡是字面上有三點水的或左邊部首都漏掉沒看到。

於是就給他念成這樣子:「孝男,翻…… 跟 ……斗 …… 」

孝男一聽,直覺得很奇怪,但又不敢問,於是就翻了一個跟斗。接著又說:「孝媳,也 …… 是…… 」

孝媳一聽:「我也要翻啊?」於是孝媳也翻了一個跟斗。

再來:「孝孫女,翻兩次。」

孝孫女一聽,想想爸媽都翻了,我也翻吧!於是就翻了兩個跟斗。

此時孝孫心想:「老爸、老媽都各翻一次,姐姐也翻兩次,那麼我要翻幾次?」心裡想著想著就開始緊張了:「怎麼辦?」

只見老先生扯開喉嚨,大聲念出:「孝孫 … 翻 …… 到 …… 死…… 」

Benjamin said...

Wah … herbert your curse on AA really powerful … now only 92sen. :{

However, I still see no reason why increase of petrol price to RM2.70 will hurt AA because higher petrol cost of car, ppl are more willing to take plane instead of driving. Agree? Now it’s time for Tony to show his solicitation skill to get more daily flight to Singapore. Beside, more asian countries cutting subsidy has put pressure on the raising of crude oil price. In short term, concern on recession is creating hinder on the crude oil price.

As for Tenaga, too bad I have disposed it at RM7.15 few weeks back. Seems like Sam’s luck is not that bad in 2008.

Bjcorp at 88sen right now, really bargain buy. PER <6times, with dividend yield, now only trade at 50% of its improved NTA, backed by improved result due to consolidation of Bjtoto and RM600mil gain on disposal of ICULS to GS. Although there is some concern on Bjland’s Vietnam business but property division only consist of 12% of bjcorp’s bottomline.

tailow said...

anyone shopping today?? ben, what happen to bjcorp???

sam, can do some shopping now.. quite cheap already for most blue chips....

fangsiah ‎我 为 人人 @ 人人 为 我 said...

Dear Mr Lim,

Good day.

Market update (5 June 2008) on Shandong government move to temporary control thermal coal price.



In view of current summer season, the electricity utilization in Shandong Province has increased tremendously causing the demand for thermal coal to be greater than its supply. On 2 June 2008, the Shandong Province Government has issue a directive for thermal coal miners to expedite the extraction of thermal coal to further increase their production by another 2.56 million tons monthly to meet the hike in demand from power plants for the next three months. Notwithstanding the above, the government has also imposed temporary control to fix the price of thermal coal from June to September 2008, in which the price of thermal coal is to be reduced by RMB10 per ton, drawing reference from the June 2008 price. The thermal coal suppliers are not allowed to increase the selling price of thermal coal during the said window period. This is to ensure that the thermal coal supply to power plants will not be disrupted and will not further burden the citizen especially after the Sichuan earthquake. (Source: www.custeel.com )



Sino Hua-An International Berhad’s wholly-owned subsidiary, Linyi Yehua Coking Co. Ltd (in Shandong Province) requiring coking coal as our raw material is not affected (in any way) by the above government rulings which is relevant to only thermal coal. Thermal coal is specifically used for power generation whereas coking coal is mainly used as raw material in the steel production.



As confirmed by Mr Liu Guodong (our Managing Director) on 5 June 2008, the temporary price control on thermal coal in Shandong Province by the government will not affect the demand , supply and prices of both coking coal and metallurgical coke. The prices of coking coal and metallurgical coke will continue to be determined by the market demand & supply mechanism.



Thank you.



Yours faithfully,

Sino Hua-An International Berhad
Bernard Tan
VP, Corp Comm & IR

Benjamin said...

Tailow, bjcorp is still undervalue.

In fact I was worry when GS lower rating of Malaysia to underweight on 3/6/08. Because GS is one of the major shareholder of bjcorp. However, I feel relief after their announcement of buying in 1.7mil shares on 29-30/5/08.

USD139/bbl crude oil will make tomorrow a black monday. I may go in more on bjcorp provided the price dip is low enough.